Help me decide which one will be my next vehicle!

"Stang70Fastback" (Stang70Fastback) 12/17/2013 at 00:15 • Filed to: None

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I am calling upon the true gearheads here at Opposite Lock to help me make a very important decision: what my next car will be.

Option 1: 2004/2005 Subaru Forester XT
Option 2: 2014 Subaru BRZ

I realize I am cross shopping two seemingly completely dis-similar vehicles, but here are the reasons for each choice:

The Forester is quick. Proper quick. 0-60 in 5.3 seconds stock (0-50 in under 4). They were rated at around 250 HP but apparently Subaru lied about those numbers because they did not want to make their WRX look bad. In reality the car makes around that number on the dyno - or so I hear. The point is it is much faster than a BRZ in a straight line. It's also a great platform for modifications - being essentially an Impreza with a tall wagon body on it. Most WRX/STi parts bolt right on. You can turn these things into properly quick cars very easily (the photo above shows a modified Forester). I also happen to like this particular body style. The front is very aggressive, and it's one of Subaru's cleaner designs before they got all funky. Not to mention they sold an STi version in Japan (the Forester above has the STi bumper.)
Of course, the biggest benefit to the Forester is cost. Granted, they are hard to find with low miles, but I did find an XT with only 15,000 miles on the odometer for around $15,000. That's half of what a BRZ costs. So I'd be saving a lot of money, which would leave me money to do my modifications and upgrades. Of course, it's also a 10 year old car, so reliability is an issue - not to mention not having a warranty. But I'd be looking for a low-mileage example, so around 50,000 miles at the most.

The BRZ... is a BRZ. I don't think I have to explain anything about it to anyone here. I LOVE the driving position, and I love the feel of the car... and RWD is a lot of fun. It wasn't particularly fast though - which wasn't necessarily an issue for me (I prefer handling to sheer speed, and anything is faster than my current vehicle) but WRX power levels are also intoxicating.
This would cost twice the price, because if I'm getting a BRZ, I am going to be the first owner, so I'm looking at around $30k. There aren't nearly as many aftermarket parts available yet, and all of those parts are inevitably going to be way more expensive. Not to mention that the car is much more likely to attract cops' attention, and will likely cost more to insure (maybe?)

At the end of the day, I simply don't know which way to go, so I am looking for any sort of input to help me make my decision. It's worth noting that my current vehicle (and the only vehicle I have ever owned) is a 1998 Subaru Outback, so regardless of which vehicle I choose, this will be my beater/winter/hauler vehicle. Therefore the inconvenience of the smaller size of the BRZ, or the lack of AWD, is not really a consideration.

Many people have said, "you already have a wagon... why would you want two ? Get the coupe!" But my goal with this car is something I have never done before: actually do a lot of work and modifications to it and learn stuff. To that end, I feel as though the Forester would be the better option. An older car will be easier to work on, and I don't have to worry about voiding the warranty. I also think the modifications I do to the Forester will likely have much more obvious results, which I think would be a good reward for my work. And if I do mess something up, it'll be much easier to find replacement parts at the local junkyard.

Thoughts, anyone? This is my first post on OppositeLock, so I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read and/or respond! (Hopefully I got the post formatting correct...)

MBG141 > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:22

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I'll go with Option 1. It's cheaper like you said, and it's a wagon, thus adding more utility and storage capabilities. And please don't hate me for saying this, but almost anyone that drives a BRZ/Scion in my area is a total asshat on the road.

But I'm not you. So choose the car that you'll think would be the best overall.

shpuker > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:25

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First things first, what are you driving now? And will you be keeping it when you make this purchase?

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:26

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kick it old school in the rare sleeper wagon. keep it for a while. in another 20 years, there are gonna be few good ones left, so keep the original parts handy, and you'll have a rare fast SUV that is actually competent off road for not that much money!

Burt > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:27

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If you're getting it to modify, then the one where you save half the budget for mode is the obvious choice. If you want it to be a street bruiser, then again, the powerful, awd Forrester is the way to go. Unless you really want to hone your driving skills with a red car, it sounds like you should pick up the shaggin' wagon.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:29

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I have to go with the Forester. You seem to be leaning that way from what I read, its easily up-gradable if that's what you are after and it will be faster than the BRZ. You will have to look around at parts to see the difference in price. Keep the old wagon for hooning around or sell it and get a little RWD to play in. Welcome to Oppo too!

Stang70Fastback > shpuker 12/17/2013 at 00:31

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I made mention of it in the post: I currently drive a 1998 Subaru Outback with 280k miles. It's old and tired, but it works and I will be keeping it as a beater/hauler/winter vehicle so long as it is cost effective. Even if it does kick the bucket, I'll likely purchase another beater, as I don't want either of these potential cars to be my only form of transport, because I will be wanting to keep it clean and in good shape.

Stang70Fastback > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 12/17/2013 at 00:32

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That's what I'm thinking. I like the idea of a fast Forester. It's unusual, and surprising for most people, and I think that's much more fun than getting the same car that everyone else is getting.

Stang70Fastback > Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif 12/17/2013 at 00:33

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Thanks for the welcome! And you would be correct in that I am leaning towards the Forester. However every time I test drive a BRZ (I actually have yet to drive an 04-05 Forester) I fall in love with the lotus-like stance and handling all over again. Gah, decisions!

Stang70Fastback > Burt 12/17/2013 at 00:34

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That's kind of what I was thinking too. If anything, all of these replies are solidifying what my initial inclination was... :)

Will-Riley > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:34

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It sounds like you are already pretty keen on getting the Forester. A low mileage Forester shouldn't give you to much trouble right? Plus, it's Japanese so it will be reliable, and have many parts for you to modify it to your liking.

mattoverdrive > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:35

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So, I'm super happy with my BRZ, but I've decided that I'm not going to mod it. Or at least hold out as long as I can. One advantage of buying a new car is the warranty, and modding could void that. I really want to get a project car that I can mod/tune, but I think I can get something
like a mark 3 supra that I can potentially mod for much less than what I was first looking at putting into the BRZ.

If you're goal is to immediately start modding the car, I'd probably recommend the forrester. If you just want a fun car that you don't have to worry about for a while get the BRZ.

If you've got any questions about the BRZ let me know.

Stang70Fastback > Will-Riley 12/17/2013 at 00:36

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Yeah, I was definitely leaning towards the Forester. I just keep wondering if I should try straying out of my comfort zone for a bit. I'm 25, and the only car I've ever owned is a boring (slow) AWD wagon. I think the Forester makes more sense for what I am trying to do, but at the same time I wonder if I might have fun with a RWD coupe, since that's completely not at all like my current car.

shpuker > shpuker 12/17/2013 at 00:37

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Actually my advice on this is gonna stay pretty consistent either way.

Say you keep the car you have now, The BRZ option obviously starts looking very nice. You have a 2 door sports coupe that you can then slowly take to a great level of fun. Wheels, exhaust, engine goodies, all that good stuff. BUT, that doesn't come cheap.

On the other hand you have the Forester. A fun, fast, practical wagon with a lot of potential. Though with the Forester I do toss forth a warning. If you go that route you're going to want to save a bit of cash while you have it. Not only for worries reliability wise (not saying they're particularly unreliable) but I know a decent amount of guys out here have had problems with diff's and such after some bigger mods, but also due to the fact that you'll be drawn towards spending decently large amounts of money on making her faster and faster. Because boost is addicting. Very addicting.

If you were to keep your car now though that'd give you some freedom to go a bit bonkers with the Forester, which is certainly not a bad thing.

Oh and if I could suggest anything else, I'd say go find an 08 XT. They're my personal favorite.

shpuker > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:39

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Must have looked right over it. See the above post though for my 2 cents.

Stang70Fastback > mattoverdrive 12/17/2013 at 00:41

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I've test driven the BRZ three times, and it does seem like fantastic fun, but I do have a few questions:

1. What is the ride like over an extended period of time? My short test drives were all about having fun in the car, but I never get enough time to settle down and judge how the car rides. I do enough road-tripping that the car would have to be a good long-distance tourer. So, for example, the seats are super-comfy when I first get in the car. Do they stay that way two hours in? What's the road noise like, and the ride over rough roads?

2. Do you find that you have any trouble with the relatively low grip levels? I realize that might sound like a silly question, but the BRZ is designed to be fun and slidey - to some degree. I wonder how it does in the wet, for example. I know you could put stickier tires on it, but I feel that doing that without bumping the power might take some of the fun out of the car. I have some pretty sticky rubber on my current Outback, so while sliding the tail out is fun, I know I would prefer the car be able to also take an entrance ramp at speed without wanting to drift the entire time.

3. Anything you don't like? I'm sure there are many things you LOVE, but I'm interested in anything you want to nitpick on, or that you don't like or feel could use improvement.

Thanks!

Will-Riley > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:42

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Whatever you choose it sounds like you will be pleased. I recently test drove a 2014 FRS, and I also thought that the seating position, feel of the car, power, etc. Was very nice, and the handling is quite extraordinary! It's a tough decision, good luck!

YSI-what can brown do for you > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:42

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I would say get the... Hmmmmm this is a hard one. I would say get the BRZ but get one used. They can be had for maybe 20k used(the FRSes are around that price). As for mods. After a year there are a ton of things to do to this car. And there is more to come!! Insurance isn't too bad, my FRS is about 80 dollars a month. Plus it can get 25 mpg+, I however only get 23... It is a great car to hone your driver skill in. If you need power though... There are turbo kits for this car.

Dusty Ventures > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:43

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There is no wrong answer here

YSI-what can brown do for you > mattoverdrive 12/17/2013 at 00:43

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Not modding a BRZ? What is this madness!!??

Stang70Fastback > YSI-what can brown do for you 12/17/2013 at 00:46

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I had looked at the turbo kits. I've been looking at lot at all of the Litchfield tuning kits (if that wasn't obvious from the leading photo.) I just wonder what that does to your warranty. I know the kit itself comes with a warranty, but if the rest of the engine decides to grenade for whatever reason, I fear that it would be difficult to get either party to repair the damage.
I do agree that there will surely be (and already are) lots of tuning options for the BRZ. I just know that the Forester/Impreza platform has long since matured, so the options for parts on those vehicles is endless... especially when it comes to finding USED tuner parts.

Stang70Fastback > MBG141 12/17/2013 at 00:48

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That was actually a consideration I almost put in my initial post, but I did not want to offend any BRZ drivers. I have also found that the BRZ is starting to grow the same kind of following as the 350/370Z. The people driving them aren't necessarily complete ass-hats on the road, but they are definitely not my crowd most of the time.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:51

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Well I think you may be out of luck with the warranty but if you run something mild like 9psi you can make 300+ hp which will make this car very fast. The FT86speedfactory track car has 40k on the clock with a supercharger and they have had no problems.

Used parts are really nice but the cost of new on the BRZ isn't anything crazy. You can get a full exhaust system for sub 2000 and some nice coilovers for about 1000.

Stang70Fastback > shpuker 12/17/2013 at 00:51

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You make some excellent points.

Why do you recommend the 08? There are only two reasons I was looking at the 04-05:

1. I think they are the best looking, and I like the front end infinitely more than the newer ones.

2. I know the 04-05 ones were the ones where Subaru went a bit nuts and put in the 4.44 ratio rear end (which might be the one you say tends to explode.) Supposedly the short block is half STi and basically the car is kind of a factory sleeper.

Why do you prefer the 08 models? I am by no means a Forester expert. I'll preach all day about 2nd gen Legacies, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Stang70Fastback > YSI-what can brown do for you 12/17/2013 at 00:53

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Hmm. Yeah, this is all part of the consideration. There really is nothing wrong with the BRZ option. Everything you say is valid. Gah!

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:58

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yeah, this is why I wouldn't get an ST ford in the next 2 years or so...
everyone's got one!
having something unique is always worth more sentimentally

shpuker > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 00:59

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Mechanically I'm not sure what all was different. But it's by far and away my favorite body.

Just a big load of sexy. Though they are pretty much impossible to find.

mattoverdrive > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 01:00

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The ride isn't too bad over long distances. When I first got it, we went to visit some of my wife's family about three hours away. The car was comfortable enough, but I really wanted to stretch my legs by the time we got there. But that would probably depend on your height as well; I'm 6'2" for a point of reference.

I wouldn't say I've had any issues with grip, but keep in mind these are low rolling resistance tires so definitely not the stickiest. If you put sticker tires on it, you could probably expect to lose a few mpgs; that may not matter to you, especially if you're going to mod it. I'm averaging 28.2 mpg, with everything stock and driving "spiritedly". I haven't had any issues taking on ramps at speed. I don't find it getting sideways too much with out me wanting it to. There's been a few times in the rain, but it's very easy to recover from.

The only thing that comes to mind where I could be nit-picky, is the head unit. I'm really wanting better integration with my iPhone than what this head unit allows for, but iOS 7 seems to help with the connection issues I was facing earlier. I'll probably swap it out if any 3rd parties start making head units that support "iOS in the car". The 2014 supports the Aha app, where my 2013 does not. I've had the car for about 9 months and that's definitely the biggest annoyance.

Stang70Fastback > shpuker 12/17/2013 at 01:06

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At the end of the day, ANY of these Foresters look sexy in STi trim, lol. That's not half bad. Still prefer the front end of the 04-05, but honestly I wouldn't complain either way ;)
Maybe newer is the way to go if not just for more creature comforts and better reliability... though probably at the expense of serviceability in some areas I'm sure. Hmmm...

Stang70Fastback > mattoverdrive 12/17/2013 at 01:09

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Thanks for that feedback! Yeah I'm a bit of an audiophile, so swapping the head unit and speakers would be pretty high on my list of things to do. Subaru's head units in general are pretty lack-luster. The sound isn't bad, but their feature set isn't the greatest. It's a bad sign when a geeky nerd like me would take the standard dot-matrix display unit over the nav (which unfortunately is the only option in the BRZ).

The rest of your answers seem about what I would expect. Good to know! I'm only 5'8", so I'd have an easier time in the vehicle than you do :P

HammerheadFistpunch > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 01:26

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i had an 05 xt manual up until this summer. good car, and you are right about it being fast, but wrong about the numbers, its rated at 212 and gets those numbers at the wheels on a dyno. its fast because of the gearing. in 06 they changed the first few ratios and 0-60 sprint slowed way down. i really liked mine and it as mostly trouble free up to 90k miles where i sold it. i really miss the power. i test drove a brz and was really unhappy with the performance, it didn't feel like a great na motor, very underwhelming, but i didn't really try out the chassis. i sold the forester because i didnt feel like it was enough sports car or suv...a nice blend but not enough of either. i cant make a recommendation but i will say one thing; if you get a foz....please PLEASE dont drop it, i cry when i see lowered xt's...whats the point? if you want a dropped wrx wagon, but a wrx wagon! if you have any questions feel free to ask.

shpuker > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 01:32

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Hahah fair enough. If I remember right all of the pre 06's have a lot of STI bits in that motor though (couldn't pull from the WRX before it switched from the 2.0 to the 2.5). So they certainly would have a bit more potential. Not to mention they run MUCH cheaper than the 08 XT's.

Stang70Fastback > HammerheadFistpunch 12/17/2013 at 01:37

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Well, since you owned basically what I am looking to buy, I do have several questions:

1. What's the refinement like on the interior? I know the Forester isn't the "top tier" model from Subaru, as that remains Legacy/Outback domain.

2. What are your gripes with the car? I'm most interested in everything you did NOT like about it.

3. Yeah, if I were to get the Forester I would drop it, but I would NOT slam it. The car in the photo above has been dropped quite a bit. I'd do a more conservative 1.5-2" drop, so it would still be high enough off the ground for general use. I don't like the thought of driving around in a car that severely limits my mobility. As for "if you want a WRX Wagon, why not get a WRX Wagon," I would much rather than larger body of the Forester, and I also just prefer the Forester's looks!

HammerheadFistpunch > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 02:09

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1. the Forester is an impreza, inside and out. Its well made and nice but not legacy nice. here is my interior with 90k miles worth of wear

2. My gripes were:

mileage 20-21 average (on premium gas...though in retrospect i am doing much worse now)

droning engine - 3600 rpms freeway speed

the sound (personal preference, I hate the sounds of boxer engines)

its a laggy engine and more so at elevation, but power was never a problem.

The steering was a little slow and light when not killing it and the roll is a little strong, but oversteer is just a lift throttle away.

too little utility. big, but not big enough. It could pull a trailer, but only 2400 lbs (and only 1000 lbs without trailer brakes) and a little too tail happy in the snow. I know its a weird thing to complain about but I never felt safe giving it to my wife to use in the winter.

3. The xt has 8 inches clearance, dropping it defeats the suv part of the equation, but I realize that its going to happen. The reason I get so bent out of shape is that the well rounded versatility of it is the charm of it, also the super sleeper factor. Get a good set of tires, roll bars and a new intercooler, turbo and programing (with the accompanying bracing) and leave the wheels, height and body stock and well...you got yourself a real giant slayer sleeper. dropping the car doesn't really improve the handling as much as it ruins the ride...which is divine for something that can melt faces off the line. My advice is to be very careful tuning these. I love an XTi as much as the next guy, but go subtle, take it easy on the mods...the car will be better for it.

Stang70Fastback > HammerheadFistpunch 12/17/2013 at 02:35

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I definitely agree and I still am not sure whether I'd drop it at all. My current Outback has some stiffer springs and fat-ass sway bars, but still rides at the stock Outback height. I left the height alone because as my only car, I did not want to give up the utility of the Outback, as you mention with the Forester. I also like the sleeper aspect because it looks like a stock Outback behind you, and yet it's catching up to you in the corners :P

However as I'd still have the outback as a beater, I think I'd take something like 1" of height out of the Forester. Not enough to really be noticeable (or ruin the suspension geometry) but just a hair so that a slightly larger set of wheels with slightly thinner tires would look a bit better on it, that's all.

Thanks for the input though! Those are some things I'll have to think about. The droning engine noise is the only one that strikes me as something I'd be very irritated with. Maybe a bit of dAmplifier or other type of sound absorbing material would solve that issue...

Alwood > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 03:47

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Get the BRZ if you want to learn driving, autocross, drifting, that sort of skills.

Get the Forester for modifying, offroad hoonage or just the occasional traffic light grand prix.

That would be my advice.

I for one love the driving-part and little beats lightweight, high-feel, rwd fun. My NC has taught me stuff about road-feel and handling I never dreamt of before.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 06:18

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lowered Foresters do things to my loins. My mouth says no but my eyes say yes.

Burt > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 08:15

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Awesome! Also, in my previous comment, red should have been rwd. I'm new to this autocorrect thing.

mattoverdrive > YSI-what can brown do for you 12/17/2013 at 08:50

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I'll let you set the example in modding the BRZ. I'll probably do the exhaust since it's not covered by the warranty anyways.

That JDL stuff you got looks pretty rad, I'd like to hear how it sounds once it's installed.

mattoverdrive > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 08:53

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It seems that you have a good idea what to expect with the BRZ.

I'm interested to find out what you end up getting.

Mustafaluigi > HammerheadFistpunch 12/17/2013 at 09:21

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How much off roading are you doing with that 8" of clearance? If it snows its not going to change if you say have 6" of clearance and how often are you driving around in shin deep snow? Dropping it to a reasonable height still leaves you with the SUV utility, lower CG, and personally I think it looks tits. You aren't mudding the thing so who cares.

HammerheadFistpunch > Mustafaluigi 12/17/2013 at 10:53

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I used it alot, and was in shin deep snow more than a few times. I live in utah and frankly, 8 inches (7.7 actual) wasnt enough for me. 11.5 is what i have now.

JEM > Stang70Fastback 12/17/2013 at 11:53

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Really great choices either way.

I think it really comes down to this: What do you value more; power or handling?

There's really no right/wrong answer, it's just what you prefer, and what you prefer right now at this point in your life. The power of the Subie or the handling of the BRZ?

Alternatively, I guess you could pick up a used C5 Corvette and get both, and there are tons of mods available for that as well.